Steve Gregg Says You Must Be Trained To Believe Calvinism Is True
James Whites and Steve Gregg are doing a 5 day (about 1 hour per day) debate on the subject of Calvinism. Each days discussions are being simulcast on Gregg’s radio program called The Narrow Path and White’s webcast known as The Dividing Line. At this point they have completed the first and second day. You can check their respective archives to listen to the first two days.
During his first segment on the first day Steve Gregg made a comment that really caught my attention. If you are listening for it, it happens about 7 or 8 minutes into the program. I have tried to transcribe it here accurately. If I don’t have it exact I a sure I have it very close. Gregg said:
Until somebody trains you to believe that Calvinism is true, I believe that if you simply read the bible you get the impression that God operates in a certain way in His creation and redemption and that man operates a certain way in creation and redemption.
Does anything about that statement jump out at you? Or, was it just me? When he said this my first thought was “that was me, that was my experience“. I did not become a Calvinist until I began to study theology. I have not had any formal training. My education has come from reading various books, both pro and con, on the topic.
Gregg was obviously trying to make a point against reformed theology. He was implying that if you simply read the bible you come to one conclusion and then you can be led astray by various teachers who have an agenda of converting people to Calvinism. But I have a different take on his comment. I think what Gregg said is true for the vast majority of Christians. It was in my case.
The vast majority of Christians do not have any desire to study theology. Unfortunately, many also do not have a desire to read their Bible but that is another topic that we may discuss at a later time. As a result, when they do read their Bible, they are not reading it in the proper context. Many do not understand that they need to know how to read the Bible. They may be under the illusion that they can just pick it up and read it and God will magically give then discernment into the meaning of what they have read. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that God can do that if He chooses to and He may choose to but we can’t presume on His grace like that.
To read the Bible correctly, you have to know several things. First you have to know who the author is and who he is writing to. For example, the Book of Matthew makes a lot more sense when you realize that Matthew is writing to the Jewish people. Second, you have to know what kind of writing you are reading. Are you reading a historical narrative, a parable, poetry, prophecy, or an epistle? Knowing this helps you to understand how to read what you are reading. Third, once you know the type of writing, you can look into the text to find the purpose for what the author has written. Lastly, you may want to try to have some understanding of the culture in which the intended readers lived. That way you can know how they would interpret what they were reading. As you can see, reading the Bible can be a lot of work…..but it is worth it.
To get all of this information you will need to study or be “trained” as Gregg says. As you begin to study, you will grow in your understanding of the Bible and its doctrines. You may see that it actually says things different than what you had thought it did or were taught that it said. That is what happened to me. As I began to read the texts and study what they actually mean it changed my whole theology. It also gave me a desire to study more. I hope that is what it will do for you.
So, is what Gregg said true? Do you have to be trained to believe that Calvinism is true? The answer is yes and no. People can study the same information and still interpret it differently. That happens all the time. In my opinion, when I began to be “trained” I could not come to any other conclusion than Calvinism was true. I would never have come to that conclusion if I had not started my “training”. Ultimately though, if you are studying with sincerity, God will bless your efforts and you will grow in your knowledge and obedience of Him.
If you have not started your “training” I urge you to do so. If you need help getting started, let me know and I will do my best to point you in the right direction or at least the direction I took.








That is just amazing. The Doctrines of Grace gave me the labels to use for what I already had come to know and believe.
I received no training for that.
My experience is like Scott’s. I come from a background that is not Calvinistic. However, as I studied the Scriptures I came to believe in what I now know as the Doctrines of Grace. The first time I ever heard of the term Calvinism or the TULIP I realized that it was what I already believed. I had no training to believe it.
Nice post man. Of course, I’m going to agree with Gregg, but you knew that already
I once worked at a Christian book store in Maryland. I could tell you some stories. Anyway, a man once told my co-worker that the KJV was the only bible one should read. To which, she responded, “I like the NIV.”
Well, you can imagine his response, right? Only the KJV was God’s inspired Word! She said, “But the King James is hard to understand in places, it being now 397 years old, and some of the words are out of use and hard to find the meaning.” And this was his response: “Well, that’s what the Holy Ghost is for.”
I about flipped! I’m thinking: Oh! Is THAT what the Holy Spirit is for. And all this time I had Him all wrong. Gee, I’m sure glad that man came into our store. I just may have gone on believing that the Holy Spirit had other things to do in the believer’s life than translate the King James VERSION of the bible.
Ignorance is NOT bliss.
Enjoyed your post.
Billy
P.S. As one who is involved in politics, let me ask you a question. To what degree, in your opinion, do you believe that God’s laws should be enforced in America? Which laws? All His laws? Be specific.
I was a non-”Calvinist” by birth, tradition and choice. It was when the Lord drove me to His written Word that my “training” was ditched and I embraced the fact that salvation is completely by grace alone.
Tom,
I can identify with your posting. I was never saved by answering an alter call from Billy Graham or reciting a prayer. I never accepted the idea of a salvation that I could lose. Sure to be certain was the fact that I would lose it. My church experiences were limited to Methodist and Catholic.
As things go with God and His providence, I did not hear the gospel of the saving grace of God until I studied the bible for myself. However, I never understood the differences in Arminianism and Calvinism when I admitted the truth of salvation and the Bible to Christ Jesus.
I had the good fortune (no one suggested them) of listening to Moody Bible on the radio and buying a Charles Ryrie NIV Study Bible.
Regards in Grace,
Dave
I became a believer out of a nonbelieving (or nominally Christian) home. A friend in college showed me Ephesians one and mentioned election. As she and the other girl in the room argued the point, I pondered. I decided to write a paper on the subject and found in the divinity school library interpretations of Ephesians 1 that absolutely made no sense to me. The I read Packer’s Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God. It made sense. I don’t think I was trained. I think I “sensed’ the truth. Some of these books (the ones in the div school library: it was an Arminian denom) violated my “sense.” Some did not. I had a smiliar experience reading Hebrews on my own where I unwittingly started to adhere to Covenant theology. It was some 12 years later that I even head the term Covenant theology and realized that’s what I had believed all along.
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Billy,
Yes, I figured you might agree with Gregg….but I like you anyway. LOL
The KJV only people always seem to forget that Jesus did not speak 1600’s english. I am not sure how they seem to miss that but it seems to be a constant theme with them. I do not discount the effectiveness of the KJV….it has an awesome track record of being used by God but that does not mean that God can’t or won’t use the modern translations. I also wonder what KJV-onlyers say to the fact that only 5 manuscripts were used in its preparation as opposed to the nearly 5500 (I think that is in the ballpark) manuscripts (and manuscript fragments) that we have today. And one more thing, the KJV was translated by one man while all modern translations have teams of dozens who do the translations.
It just makes you want to say….HMMMMMM.
Your question about which of God’s Law I think the government should enforce in the U.S. is an interesting one. I have tried to think about it a bit before answering and I am not sure I have a well thought-out answer yet but here goes anyway.
I think that God’s Law should be enforce to the greatest extent possible. I might go all the way and suggest that the U.S become a theocracy but I am not sure. No matter how far, I do believe that God’s law has a place in our government. We already try to legislate morality in many instances the problem is that the morality we are trying to encourage is not always God’s.
In an ideal situation all the laws that were created or reiterated in the New Testament would be enforced. I know that is not going to happen though so I would start with the Ten Commandments and work from there.
How about you? What is your position? Why are you asking the question?
I come from a group of baptist (the garbc) that is anti-systematic as you get…and yet I from just reading at the Bible arrived at the doctrines of grace….
I’m answering Billy here because this is a subject that interests me very much.
The best response I can give is something that I wrote a few months back in response to a similar question. The question was, “How do we defeat the lies of Satan in our country?” and this was my answer.
“The false christ who approved of slavery because “slaves should obey their masters”; the false christ who burned supposed witches at the stake; the false christ who was self-righteous, proud, and hypocritical. Unfortunately, these false christs have become synonomous with the true Christ. If you ask me, the way to defeat the lies of Satan is to show people the true Christ and destroy the illusion that the Christ who died for our sins and these false christs are one in the same. This will destroy lies and false ideologies at their very core and replace the foundation with truth.
How do we do that? By showing people Christ and by seeking Him wholeheartedly ourselves. We cannot seek Christ with all of our heart, mind, and strength if we make politics an idol.
My argument is that in order for true, lasting change to happen, it needs to happen at the very core of the issue. We shouldn’t wonder if all we ever do is try to treat the symptoms and we die from the actual disease. We want the gay man to stop his homosexual lifestyle, but we have no desire to win his heart for Christ! We spend all of our time telling everyone to clean up their act, but in so doing we neglect to give them the solution to those problems. What good will it do for us to have a nation of outwardly good people who are white-washed tombs, but inwardly are full of dead bones? All of our work and efforts will perish with them in hell.
Want to make a lasting change on society? Then be Christ. It’s that simple. Focus all of your energy and life into becoming more like Him, and you will be able to do even greater things then He did. Our focus should be on winning the lost, not winning elections. Our time, money, and effort should be given to doing the things of God, not pushing the agendas of men. God’s heart is for the lost, and if our hearts are truly dwelling in His, that’s where they’ll be too.”
So, no. I do not think that enforcing Christian morality is a good idea in the least bit. All it does is encourage behavior modification, not heart transformation. I do not believe that Christ called us to establish an earthly kingdom of His laws. He called us to establish a heavenly kingdom in the hearts of men.
Of course this by no means should imply that we have no laws and allow anything and everything to happen. But I do not believe that our laws should be because of our religion. I do not believe that church and state should intersect. Abortion should be illegal because it harms other human beings. But some of the things that Christians in America fight so hard for, aren’t really worth it. We are being distracted from the issues of the heart because we focus on the issues of the flesh; what a person is doing as opposed to the condition of their heart.
The Pharisees were perfect in all of their outward actions, and yet it was those very people that Jesus spoke out against. Jesus not once preached against the Romans and their idolatry, but he devoted a good deal of time preaching against the hypocrites and the self-righteous.
In thier extremes Calvanism and Armenianism are in error . This side of heaven we wont be able to reconcile the free will of man and the soviergnty of God yet they both are true.God knows how they both work and in His mind thier is no confusion.We would be much better off if we would quit dividing the body of Christ over endless arguements which can never be resolved.
Steve,
Two years ago I held the exact same position you mention. But no longer. I began my study of Calvinism with the purpose of refuting it but I found that I could not. In fact, I ended up embracing it. Now, I believe completely that God’s sovereignty and free will can be reconciled…but the free will of which I speak is not Libertarian Free Will (as many describe it). Libertarian Free Will is not compatible with God’s sovereignty in any way and as such must be rejected not resolved.
Hi All,
I am always amazed Mr. Gregg can still stir up this useless debate time and time again.
If you know Steve then you know he probably doesn’t even mean to debate these points but find these debates useful for the furtherance of Bible Knowledge.
Do not think I’m a Gregg hater. I believe he is probably the most thorough, thoughtful, Bible Teacher of our generation.
What is useless however is trying to put people into camps. To say your one or the other is to minimize what the Holy Spirit can do through you.
This thinking, of camp mentality, is what I have learned to get rid of by applying Mr. Greggs teachings on Hebrews Chapter 6.
If we could all get out of the 15th-18th Century Theology books we may find true Spiritual growth and finally get on with becoming mature Believers.
I say study a bit deeper and go to Jewish Wisdom writings, coupled with first Century Believers. If of course you want to be confused then stay with these archaic, victorian arguments of yesteryear.
Tim,
Please explain what you mean by “true spiritual growth” and “mature believers”. I think you may be appealing to the Gnostics and they certainly are not better teachers than the Reformers. I think you need to re-evaluate what teachings you follow.