Islam – A Religion of Peace?

This article (Extreme Islamic “Generosity” « Scott W. Kay) is very telling.  Everyone says that Islam is a religion of peace but I don’t think that is the case.  Here is another Islamic leader calling for the murder of someone who has insulted their prophet.  This leader has also offered a reward for the murder of $100,000.00.  He offered to raise the reward to $150,000.00 if the person is “slaughtered like a lamb”. 

Remember this is the punishment for what is considered an insult…..that’s right an insult.  Now does that sound like a religion of peace to you?  We cannot allow this religion to continue to grow unchecked.  In a war, and make no mistake we are in a war, the aggressor sets the rules of engagement.  This is just another example of how they operate, we need to be prepared to defend ourselves with as much passion and dedication as they are attaching us.

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96 Responses to Islam – A Religion of Peace?

  1. salahudin says:

    one small article to define a 1400+ year old civilization?

    yeah… i believe you.

    Like

  2. Tom says:

    A civilization? I thought it was a religion.

    The history (1400+ years) of Islam has been to force conversion of non-believers or kill them. There is no denying the history…but some do choose to ignore it.

    Like

    • IBRABEN says:

      NOW thats just a lie ! in Islam u cant kill inoccent people , and there is no such thing ‘ Islam has been to force conversion of non-believers or kill them’ right now saudi arabia has lots of christians…

      Like

      • Tom Shelton says:

        IBRABEN,

        Please give us Islam’s definition of an innocent person. My guess is that someone who has had their death called for by a Islamic leader is not considered innocent by Islam. Am I correct in this?

        As for the forced conversions, we hear stories every few days (it seems) of where a Christian girl, usually a teen or younger, has been kidnapped by Muslim men. Then, she suddenly converts to Islam, marries the kidnapper, and does not “want” to return to her family. If this is not a forced conversion please explain to us all what is happening here. I, for one, am really interested in knowing. The Islamic courts seem to be complicit in these instances also because you never hear of the kidnappers being prosecuted. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…….

        Like

  3. salahudin says:

    you’re right.. some people DO choose to ignore it! 😛

    and some even go so far as to make erroneous statements about it too! lol

    Like

  4. WhoreChurch says:

    And some ignore the violence done in the name of Christ as well.

    Like

  5. Tom says:

    Yes, some have done violence in the name of Christ. The difference is that Christ does not teach people to do violence in His name. The same cannot be said of Islam.

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  6. salahudin says:

    arguable.

    Like

  7. Tom says:

    How so?

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  8. WhoreChurch says:

    Hmmmm…as much as I hate to, I agree that CHRIST did not teach violence.

    Unless Tom accepts the Trinity. If so the God of the OT and Christ in the NT are the same person in different manifestations.

    And there is little question the OT God teaches violence in His Holy Name. Genocide for example: Why was Saul rejected as King? He refused to commit genocide as God had commanded.

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  9. WhoreChurch says:

    Meant to say…

    “as much as I hate to agree with Tom, Christ did not teach violence.”

    Like

  10. panoramia says:

    Haven’t seen your stuff before — glad for that; but before I leave, a thought — are you pushing that other great Religion of Peace, by any chance?

    You know, the “love your neighbours” and “turn the other cheek” and “Prince of Peace” … crap …

    Pot and kettle? Naaaaah!

    Like

  11. salahudin says:

    “The difference is that Christ does not teach people to do violence in His name. The same cannot be said of Islam.”

    it depends on what your sources are. according to the quran, muhammad didn’t teach violence. according to the sahih muslim collection, muhammad didn’t preach violence. etc etc etc.

    the sahih bukhari has a lot of contradictory verses in it… and according to that, he did preach violence. so it depends on which islam you believe in: the terrorist version or the one the majority believes in… that denounces terrorism.

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  12. salahudin says:

    i’d reply to you more, but i’m off for the day. i’ll check upon this blog tmrw. 🙂

    Like

  13. panoramia says:

    While we’re at it, try this on for size—it’s a goofy little thing, an interim measure until I get some real thoughts together, but it’s a start:

    http://panoramia.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/a-stake-in-heresy-a-burning-question/

    .

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  14. Ah! Such an informed and hateful article. Is Christianity a religion of peace? Forget what “someone” might have said, here’s what JESUS himself said:

    “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household”

    Matthew 10:34-36

    Read more here: http://attendingtheworld.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/religion-love-violence-or-terrorism/

    Like

  15. photographerno1 says:

    you cant condemn a religion because of the sayings of a mad man ,but one thing is true as the jehadis perpetrate evil the rest of islam watches , in eunuch slence as they did when a lamb was sacrificed to rebuild Islam, Islam has time and again borne the madness of primeval barbic barbarism..
    imam Hussains murder and the genocide of his family was the seeds of earliest jehadi terrorism..
    An Indian Muslim..

    Like

  16. photographerno1 says:

    it shoud read arabic barbarism,

    Like

  17. firedancer says:

    “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household”

    Matthew 10:34-36

    In context, Jesus was proclaiming here that his way was so radically other than that of the world system that it would inevitably draw persecution. The sword of which he speaks here is being wielded AGAINST true believers, not BY them. Agreed that many throughout the history of the so-called church have done incalculable harm and violence in the name of Christ. Nonetheless, those kings and powerbrokers have only sought to baptize and disguise their true nature under a christian veneer. True Christians, those who fully embrace the way of Jesus, are something other, and the history of their activities and presence in the world is there as well, for those who have eyes to see.
    I have to admit to some divided feelings myself on the subject of Islam as a religion of peace. But as one who has studied both history and philosophy, I do know that the golden age of Islam in the near east and north Africa was often characterized by prosperity, tolerance, and vibrant scholarly dialogue. Most of what we know of ancient history and philosophy, mathematics, and science, the foundations of western thought and culture, was preserved by Islamic thinkers and scholars during the middle ages (and some celtic monks). I’m curious if any of the Islamic readers could tell me what the dominant “form” or “school” of Islam was during that period…

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  18. firedancer says:

    Also, for those looking for an alternate take on the true teachings of Christianity, might I suggest two books which impacted me greatly: The Sermon on the Mount, by Clarence Jordan…and The Politics of Jesus, by John Howard Yoder.

    Like

  19. zedan says:

    القرآن الأمريكي الجديد (استغفر الله) ،،،،مهم جدا،،،
    القرآن الأمريكي الجديد (استغفر الله)
    ارجو التثبيت للأهميه القصوى
    أعوذ بالله العظيم من كل شيطان رجيم
    تحريف للقرآن الكريم
    القرآن الأمريكي الجديد أمر خطير جدا
    وتحريف واضح للقران
    قرآن جديد يوزع في الكويت
    اسمه ((الفرقان الحق))
    والله يا أخوان شيء خطير وخطير للغاية
    اللهم اعز الإسلام والمسلمين وأذل الشرك و المشركين من اليهود والنصارى والمنافقين
    آمين آمين آمين.
    آيات شيطانية جديدة تسمي
    الفرقان الحق توزع في الكويت
    الحاضر يعلم الغائب،
    اللهم فاشهد أمانه علي كل من سمع أو قرأ هذا الكلام أن يبلغ به أكبر عدد ممكن من المسلمين اللهم فاشهد، اللهم فاشهد!
    مجلة الفرقان الكويتية
    تسلط الضوء علي مصحف مزعوم
    آيات شيطانية جديدة تسمي الفرقان الحق
    توزع في الكويت.
    الدوحة – خاص براية الإسلام
    إنها حقا آيات شيطانية جديدة، فقد نشرت مجلة الفرقان التي تصدرها أسبوعيا
    جمعية إحياء التراث الإسلامي بالكويت
    موضوعا خطيرا عن صدور كتاب جديد باسم الفرقان الحق
    وبدأت المجلة التي جعلت من الموضوع عنوانا لغلافها:
    ” تمخضت دارا النشر الأمريكيتان
    Omega 2001 و wine Press
    فقذفتا لنا أخيراً، آيات شيطانية أسمياها الفرقان الحق.
    وهو ليس سوي الكتاب المقدس للقرن الحادي والعشرين!
    أو سمه أن شئت كتاب السلام! أو مصحف الأديان الثلاثة!!
    قدم له عضوا اللجنة المشرفة علي تدوينه وترجمته ونشره المدعوان الصفي و المهدي – كما ورد في مقدمته – وذكرا بأنه للأمة العربية خصوصا والي العالم الإسلامي عموما.
    مصحف الفرقان الحق المزعوم يقع في 366 صفحة من القطع المتوسط
    ومترجم إلي اللغتين العربية والإنجليزية..
    ويوزع في الكويت
    علي المتفوقين من أبنائنا الطلبة في المدارس الأجنبية الخاصة..
    التي أصبحت مرتعا خصبا للمنصرين، للتأثير علي فلذات أكبادنا وبث ثقافة الاستسلام في أذهان الأجيال القادمة من أبنائنا وبناتنا،
    حتى يردوهم عن دينهم الإسلامي الحنيف، لا سيما أن الشباب يمثلون طموح الأمة وقادة المستقبل،
    فها هي أصابع التغيير وجهود التنصير ومخاطر حقبة السلام تتسلل إلي عقول أبنائنا وتعبث بمعتقداتهم وقيمهم وأفكارهم.
    حرب باردة خفية تدور علي أبنائنا في ظل غفلتنا وانشغالنا بأعباء الحياة وتكالب الأعداء علي أمتنا الإسلامية!.
    يبتديء المصحف المزعوم بمقدمة مسمومة ترسخ وتؤصل للخلط العقدي وحرية الأديان في مردات تنصيرية،
    زاعمة أن الفرقان الحق لكل إنسان بحاجة إلي النور بدون تمييز لعنصره أو لونه أو جنسه أو أمته أو دينه.
    يتألف من 77 سورة مختلقة وخاتمة.
    ومن أسماء تلك السور المفتراة
    الفاتحة -المحبة – المسيح – الثالوث – المارقين – الصَّلب – الزنا – الماكرين – الرعاة -الإنجيل – الأساطير – الكافرين – التنزيل – التحريف – الجنة – الأضحى – العبس-الشهيد.. إلخ .
    ويفتتح بالبسملة الطامة بقولهم:
    ( بسم الأب الكلمة الروح الإله الواحد الأوحد.
    مثلث التوحيد.. موحد التثليث ما تعدد).
    يتجلى فيه خلط واضح لمعني الإله فهو الأب كما زعمت النصارى
    ومثلث التوحيد وهو الإله الواحد الأحد كما يعتقد المسلمون.
    ثم تأتي سورة الفاتحة المزعومة بتلبيس إبليس في مطابقة اسمها
    . لفاتحة القرآن العظيم..
    ثم سورة النور.. ثم السلام.. وهكذا.
    وفي سورة السلام المفتراة حشو للإفك والباطل وتلفيق واضح، ومن آياتها:
    ( والذين اشتروا الضلالة وأكرهوا عبادنا بالسيف ليكفروا بالحق ويؤمنوا بالباطل أولئك هم أعداء الدين القيم وأعداء عبادنا المؤمنين).
    فمن ذا في عصرنا يُكره المؤمنين ليكفروا بالحق غير أعداء الله من اليهود والنصارى؟
    ثم يأتي التصريح بالنصرانية ليكشف عن مكنون صدورهم
    في السورة ذاتها بقولهم
    افتراء علي الله:
    (يا أيها الناس لقد كنتم أمواتا فأحييناكم بكلمة الإنجيل الحق. ثم نحييكم بنور الفرقان الحق)
    ثم يتجلى التحريف والعبث بآيات القرآن العظيم في كل آيات ذلك الكتاب.
    ثم تأتي الفرية في الكذب علي الله بقولهم
    (لقد افتريتم علينا كذبا بأنا حرمنا القتال في الشهر الحرام , ثم نسخنا ما حرمنا فحللنا فيه قتالا كبيرا )!!.
    وفي سورة المسيح التي خطتها أيديهم الآثمة:
    (وزعمتهم بأن الإنجيل محرف بعضه فنبذتم جُلَّه وراء ظهوركم).
    وبذلك يستنكرون على القرآن بيان حقيقة تحريفهم للإنجيل والتوراة.
    ويتبع ذلك اتهام المسلمين بالنفاق في مثل قولهم:
    (وقلتم: آمنا بالله وبما أوتي عيسي من ربه ، ثم تلوتم منكرين..
    ومن يبتغ غير ملتنا دينا فلن يقبل منه.. وهذا قول المنافقين) !!.
    ويتواصل الرفض لاستخدام القوة في قتال الكفار أعداء الله
    بقولهم في السورة المزعومة نفسها:
    (وكم من فئة قليلة مؤمنة غلبت فئة كثيرة كافرة بالمحبة والرحمة والسلام) !!
    ثم يتعمدون مساواة الطهر بالخبث والنجاسات!! ومساواة النكاح بالزنا!!
    في سورة الطهر بقولهم على الله
    زورا وكذبا :
    (وما كان النجس والطمث والمحيض والغائط والتيمم والنكاح والهجر والضرب والطلاق
    إلا كومة ركس لفظها الشيطان بلسانكم وما كانت من وحينا وما أنزلنا بها من سلطان).
    تلك أمانيهم أن نكفر بالقرآن العظيم وبآيات الله عز وجل
    ونتبع أنجيلهم المحرف وفرقانهم المكذوب علي الله ولكن هيهات لهم!.
    أخي المسلم بالله عليك كن إيجابيا وساعد في نشر هذه الرسالة ووزعها علي كل من تعرف حتى نحارب هذا الخطر الذي يحارب الإسلام وأهله وحتى تلقي الله
    وتجد الإجابة حين يسألك عن هذا الموضوع
    ماذا فعلت حين علمت أن القرآن قد حُرف ؟
    هل أخبرت من حولك وساعدت في مجابهة هذا الخطر
    وساعدت في نشر هذه الرسالة؟
    أم قلت مالي وشأني ؟
    أخي المسلم
    اعمل ليوم تذل فيه الأقدام ويحتاج أحدنا لحسنه لا يجدها حتى عند أقرب المقربين منه.
    إعمل ليوم لا ينفع فيه مال ولا بنون إلا من أتي الله بقلب سليم..
    كلمه أخيرة:
    أخي المسلم اعمل ليوم تلقي فيه رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم
    فيلقاك بوجه مستبشر ويقول يا رب هذا من أمتي ويسقيك من يده الشريفة شربة هنيئة لا تظمأ بعدها أبدا
    سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك اشهد أن لا اله إلا أنت استغفرك وأتوب إليك
    حقوق الطبع والنشر والتوزيع محفوظة
    لكل مسلم يغار علي دينه ويدافع عنه بكل ما أوتي من قوة.
    منقول لتبليغ الامانة
    أستغفر الله العظيم من كل ذنب عظيم
    يا مقلب القلوب و الأبصار
    ثبت قلوبنا علي دينك
    آمين
    ولله العزة جميعاً أصلاً وقرآناً
    وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا
    وَهُوَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ
    حَسْبُنَا اللّهُ وَنِعْمَ الْوَكِيل
    حَسْبُنَا اللّهُ وَنِعْمَ الْوَكِيل
    مــــــــنــــــــــــقول

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  20. firedancer says:

    um……helpful. thank you……………………..

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  21. alisbasement says:

    Tom, I am a US born/raised Muslim. My family came here over 30 years ago for more opportunities. I can tell you from experience that Islam IS a peaceful religion. I have never been taught hatred in my life, actually the exact opposite, that we should be caring for all people. If you ever look at a picture of Hajj, the holy pilgrimage to Mecca, you will see that we have people from every ethic background imaginable.

    The thing you have to realize about Islam is that we do not have leaders. We don’t have a clergy, meaning there are no priests, popes or anything like that. So, these so-called “leaders” are just that, so-called, they’ve labeled themselves. They DO NOT represent Islam. They definitely don’t represent me, my family, or any of my friends.

    Like the saying goes, there are bad apples in every tree. There are radicals in every religion including Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. One thing to note about those 3 religions is that they are the only monotheistic religions in the world and we all believe in the same God. Allah is just the Arabic term for God, it’s no different. Muslims also believe in Jesus, Moses, Adam & Eve, Abraham, Noah, and the list goes on.

    I understand where you fear and extreme views come from, this is a religion and a people who you don’t understand. Please try to do your research and learn a little about the people who so easily put down before writing hatred against a peaceful religion. If you would like to learn about the TRUE Islam and the real facts, please let me know and I can help you with that.

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  22. Tom says:

    Zedan,

    Thank you for your post but please translate it into English so that we may all read and respond to what you have posted.

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  23. Tom says:

    alisbasement said:

    I can tell you from experience that Islam IS a peaceful religion. I have never been taught hatred in my life, actually the exact opposite, that we should be caring for all people.

    I do not doubt your personal experience. The one thing we are experts on is our personal experience. But that does not change the fact that over the history of Islam (what little of it I know) it has been a religion that seeks to force conversion or kill those who resist conversion.

    Like the saying goes, there are bad apples in every tree. There are radicals in every religion including Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

    I agree completely…it is not my desire to base my understanding on the behavior of these radicals. The behavior of everyday common practitioners of Islam are more than sufficient to come to my conclusions.

    One thing to note about those 3 religions is that they are the only monotheistic religions in the world and we all believe in the same God. Allah is just the Arabic term for God, it’s no different. Muslims also believe in Jesus, Moses, Adam & Eve, Abraham, Noah, and the list goes on.

    This is simply not the case. The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity.

    I understand where you fear and extreme views come from, this is a religion and a people who you don’t understand. Please try to do your research and learn a little about the people who so easily put down before writing hatred against a peaceful religion.

    I admit I do not have a good understanding of Islam yet. At some point I intend to do some detailed studying of it…until then I will have to rely on the teachings of those who have done the studying already.

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  24. Tom says:

    attendingtheworld said:

    Ah! Such an informed and hateful article.

    Why is it a hateful article to discuss what has actually happened. Where is the condemnation of those who ordered the murder of someone who drew a cartoon? Where is the condemnation of those who riot in the streets because they are unhappy with something someone half way around the world did? Where is the condemnation of those who strap bombs onto their bodies and seek to kill as many women and children as they can?n Where is the condemnation of those who offer to pay the families of those who strap bombs to themselves and try to kill as many women and children as they can?

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  25. alisbasement says:

    “But that does not change the fact that over the history of Islam (what little of it I know) it has been a religion that seeks to force conversion or kill those who resist conversion.”

    I’m sorry but this is false, as you said, you know very little. I’ve never been instructed to convert or kill anyone in my life and neither has any other Muslim I’ve ever come across and I’ve come across thousands.

    “I agree completely…it is not my desire to base my understanding on the behavior of these radicals. The behavior of everyday common practitioners of Islam are more than sufficient to come to my conclusions.”

    I don’t think you know any common, everyday Muslims. You’re basing your conclusions off of the radicals they show on TV, which don’t even represent 1% of our people. If you did, you’d know we are a peaceful religion. I don’t know if you know this, but currently we are observing the month of Ramadan. It is a month where we fast without food or water between sunrise and sunset for 30 continuous days in observance of self cleansing, peace, calm, self-discipline, sacrifice, as well as sympathy for those who are less fortunate. Do you know of any other religion that observes such a month? If that doesn’t sound like a peaceful religion, then I don’t know what does.

    “This is simply not the case. The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity.”

    I’m sorry but you are wrong, whether you like it or not, all 3 religions worship the same God. You need to check your facts. Ask any person who has studied religion. If it weren’t true, why would we have all the same stories from the Torah and Bible in the Qur’an. My father has read all 3 and so I know this for a fact. Please do your research.

    Tom, I do hope that you spend some time learning more about the religion, you’re a person of the book, so I respect you and have absolutely nothing negative to say about Christianity. I would only hope you would give us the same respect as we are also people of the book. I actually have a book to recommend: “Islam for Dummies” by Malcolm Clark.

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  26. Tom says:

    Alisbasement,

    One question. Do you worship Jesus as God? Christians worship Jesus as God. He is one part of the Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is my understanding that you only see Jesus as a prophet not as God.

    If you do not worship Jesus as God then we cannot be worshiping the same God.

    While I have not studied Islam extensively that does not mean that I have not studied it some. I do not watch the TV news so I do not get my information from there…I get most of my news from talk radio or some reliable internet news sites (like the DrudgeReport). I have listened to Ergun Caner and Emir Caner discuss Islam and their conversion to Christianity. I have listened to Dr. James White discuss Islam and what it believes and teaches.

    I have heard or Ramadan. I am not familiar with what is done during the month. Why do you have to self-cleanse? The Christian God does the cleansing. Christians are taught that we are not capable of cleansing ourselves. Another difference between the god of Islam and the God of Christianity?

    On a side note, I do appreciate your willingness to “educate” me. I doubt that we will ever agree but the interaction is very informative.

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  27. Anonymous says:

    Interesting thought—at least strapping a bomb to one’s own body is more … honest? No problem being a “professional”, sitting at thirty thousand feet in air-conditioned comfort, pressing the button when the light turns green then bimbling off back to the States in time for the Army-Navy game — whilst a long way below (and totally forgotten about already) real people are burning to death or looking for what’s left of their own guts.
    “Gentle Jesus, meek and mild” or “Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Merciful” would you please explain my above to these enthusiasts?

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  28. alisbasement says:

    “Do you worship Jesus as God? Christians worship Jesus as God. He is one part of the Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is my understanding that you only see Jesus as a prophet not as God. If you do not worship Jesus as God then we cannot be worshiping the same God.”

    You’re right, Islam only recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and not God himself. Theologically, we have our differences. Yet, the principle of God is the same, he is just 1 God. This still does not mean we need to separate ourselves. Historically, we along with Judaism are the 3 monotheistic religions, so we have a certain bond.

    “I get most of my news from talk radio or some reliable internet news sites (like the DrudgeReport). I have listened to Ergun Caner and Emir Caner discuss Islam and their conversion to Christianity. I have listened to Dr. James White discuss Islam and what it believes and teaches.”

    I am familiar with the DR, but not the people you mentioned. I would still refrain from judging a people based on news from a site, it’s still bias. I think that’s great that you’ve read up on it. But, understand that if a person converted from Islam to Christianity, they are going to be slightly bias, I ask that you read from someone who is just giving you straight facts rather than their interpretation. I would really look into the book by Malcolm Clark.

    “I have heard or Ramadan. I am not familiar with what is done during the month. Why do you have to self-cleanse?”

    You can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan. It’s a physical and spiritual cleansing and God is involved in the process, we are not doing it alone. Also, like I mentioned I do not separate your God from my God, because as an entity he is still God. I’m not going to get into a God vs god debate, it’s unnecessary. I just ask that you respect our God (with a capital ‘G’) as we respect yours because the principles are the same.

    I think thats the beauty of religion, we don’t necessarily need to agree, we just need to understand each other and accept the difference and rather than dwell on them, work together to co-exist. I’m glad I was able to give a different perspective on the religion. The whole point to conversing with you was to let you know that true Muslims are peaceful people who are taught peace, forgiveness and love. Please don’t judge us off of these few sick individuals, they do not and will not represent us.

    Like

  29. billphillips says:

    I think the main difference between the Allah and the true God of the Bible is that Allah is a judge that can be bribed, and God cannot.

    We’ve all broken God’s law (the Ten Commandments). If you’ve ever told a lie, you’ve broken the 9th Commandment, and you’re a liar. If you’ve ever stolen anything (even when you were a kid), you’re a thief. Jesus said that if you’ve ever looked at a woman with lust, you’ve committed adultery with her in your heart (Matthew 5:27-28).

    We’re all guilty of breaking God’s law. Just like any guilty criminal, we deserve to be punished on Judgment Day. God is infinitely holy, righteous and just, and won’t let one sin go unpunished.

    Islam says that if you keep the 5 pillars, Allah will overlook your sins, and let you into heaven. In other words, you can bribe Allah with worship and good deeds, and he’ll let guilty criminals go free.

    That certainly isn’t what the Bible says. Leviticus 17:11 says that blood is required to atone for sins. Muslims have no blood to pay for their sins. Christians have been given the blood of Jesus.

    Jesus said “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13). God laid down His life for us on the cross. He has shown us the greatest love. Muslims (and so many others) reject the greatest gift God has given, and God’s wrath remains on them (John 3:36). Justice must be served. Without a sacrifice, you will take your own punishment in hell. Please repent and put your faith in Jesus–the one true God.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  30. Tom says:

    Anonymous said

    Interesting thought—at least strapping a bomb to one’s own body is more … honest? No problem being a “professional”, sitting at thirty thousand feet in air-conditioned comfort, pressing the button when the light turns green then bimbling off back to the States in time for the Army-Navy game — whilst a long way below (and totally forgotten about already) real people are burning to death or looking for what’s left of their own guts.

    This is a complete straw man argument. You cannot equate military action with terrorism. How honest is it to purposefully murder women and children? If you want to justify terrorism you will not get any support here.

    Like

  31. Tom says:

    alisbasement said

    You’re right, Islam only recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and not God himself. Theologically, we have our differences. Yet, the principle of God is the same, he is just 1 God.

    This is proof that we do NOT worship the same God. In Christianity Jesus is God in human form. John 1:1-5 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) He was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life, and the life was the light of men. (5) The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. If you do not worship Jesus as God then we do not serve the same God.

    alisbasement said

    Historically, we along with Judaism are the 3 monotheistic religions, so we have a certain bond.

    The fact that the 3 religions have in common the fact that they are monotheistic does not mean that it is the same God. Judaism and Christianity are related…no doubt about that but Islam is not related to either of these.

    alisbasement said

    I’m not going to get into a God vs god debate, it’s unnecessary. I just ask that you respect our God (with a capital ‘G’) as we respect yours because the principles are the same.

    I do not mean any disrespect to you personally but I cannot honor your god with a capital G. My God is a jealous God and will not share His honor with anything or anyone. 1 Samuel 5:1-4 says When the Philistines captured the ark of God, they brought it from Ebenezer to Ashdod. (2) Then the Philistines took the ark of God and brought it into the house of Dagon and set it up beside Dagon. (3) And when the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the LORD. So they took Dagon and put him back in his place. (4) But when they rose early on the next morning, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the LORD, and the head of Dagon and both his hands were lying cut off on the threshold. Only the trunk of Dagon was left to him. This is how my God reacts and treats other gods.

    alisbasement said

    The whole point to conversing with you was to let you know that true Muslims are peaceful people who are taught peace, forgiveness and love. Please don’t judge us off of these few sick individuals, they do not and will not represent us.

    I appreciate your perspective and willingness to share and defend your faith. I respect that. It would be very helpful for me, and others I think, to see the true Muslims (as you call them) themselves standing up and putting a stop to these extremists.

    Like

  32. WhoreChurch says:

    Tom,

    John 1:1-5 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) He was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life, and the life was the light of men. (5) The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. If you do not worship Jesus as God then we do not serve the same God.

    If you are right, then Jesus advocates all sorts of violent acts up to and including genocide. That doesn’t sound like a non-violent Jesus to me.

    So which God to do you worship Tom, the God of genocide or the God of peace?

    Like

  33. billphillips says:

    WC,

    I don’t think the question is whether Jesus is violent or peaceful, or whether Allah is violent or peaceful. The question is whether Christians are commanded to be violent or not, and I think we all know the answer.

    The Great Commandments are to love your neighbor as yourself and love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. I wish there were more Christian extremists, who take the words of Jesus literally, and act them out on a daily basis.

    However, no one hopes for more Muslim extremists. No one hopes for more Muslims to take the Koran literally.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    p.s. Jesus has the right to be violent, because the universe is His posession, and He can do with it as He wishes, including killing people, and sending them to hell.

    Like

  34. alisbasement says:

    “This is proof that we do NOT worship the same God. In Christianity Jesus is God in human form.”

    Let me ask you, now I understand Christians believe in the Trinity, but who gets credit for the creation of the world, Adam & Eve, sending the messengers such as Moses, Noah, Abraham, etc? The Father or the Trinity as a whole? Muslims believe in the God you call ‘Father’, we just do not acknowledge the ‘Son’ and the ‘Holy Ghost’. I know its a theological difference, but I’m telling you it’s the same God.

    “Judaism and Christianity are related…no doubt about that but Islam is not related to either of these.”

    What does Christianity have in common with Judaism that you are unwilling to share with Islam? We believe in Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jeus, Adam & Eve, the list gones on. I really don’t understand why you’re trying to seperate us. We also have teachings from the Torah and Bible, Islam is just a continuation. I feel you are failing to see this.

    “I appreciate your perspective and willingness to share and defend your faith. I respect that. It would be very helpful for me, and others I think, to see the true Muslims (as you call them) themselves standing up and putting a stop to these extremists.”

    Honestly, if the US Military can’t stop them, how do you expect common citizens to set up, you know they are in harms way as well. Muslims were also killed in 9/11 and they are also dying in those attacks overseas. I often feel the media is hesitant to show the better side because there’s such a focus on the negative right now. Plus I feel our current administration needs this “war on terror” to promote its agenda and to build our economy, you wouldn’t imagine the billions of dollars that are being earned by this country from this “war on terror”. Look, we’re trying, we really are. There are several organizations out there like ISNA and CAIR and many more that are doing great work in the community and helping to bridge the gap. ISNA actually holds an annual convention to talk about interfaith activities (where leaders of other religions are invited and attend), social activism, etc and this year the DOD was there to participate in the fuctions. The TRUE Muslims are out there and they’re doing good work, they’re just not getting the press like these radicals. Believe it or not, it’s hard to compete. These news stations are fighting for rating, what do you think sells more, the good or the bad?

    Like

  35. alisbasement says:

    billphilips,

    I think you’re out of line and don’t know what you’re talking about. I came on here to help clarify a few things and to set the record straight on this peaceful Religion and you don’t need to continue to spread hatred.

    “I think the main difference between the Allah and the true God of the Bible is that Allah is a judge that can be bribed, and God cannot. We’re all guilty of breaking God’s law. Just like any guilty criminal, we deserve to be punished on Judgment Day. God is infinitely holy, righteous and just, and won’t let one sin go unpunished.
    Islam says that if you keep the 5 pillars, Allah will overlook your sins, and let you into heaven. In other words, you can bribe Allah with worship and good deeds, and he’ll let guilty criminals go free.”

    Are you serious?? Keep 5 pillars, do you even know what those are? They are Shahadah (profession of faith), Salah (ritual prayer), Zakah (charity), Sawm (fasting during Ramadan), and Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). The 1st pillar is the acceptance of one God, the 2nd involves 5 daily prayers, the 3rd is to always give to the poor and look out for those that are less fortunate, the 4th is a month of fasting (which is currently underway) where we fast from sunrise to sunset without food or drink in observe of those less fortunate and really appreciate how blessed we are, and the 5th is the pilgrimage to Mecca. These are extremely difficult duties and we spend our entire lives trying to complete them and even then there is no guarantee that you are welcomed into Heaven. We have to repent at all times for our sins, but God is compassionate, forgiving and loving. Don’t these beliefs all sound a little familiar? (.i.e. Judaism, Christianity, etc) Think about it.

    Honestly, Bill, pick up a book and educate yourself. There is no need to spread your ignorance. I would never disrespect you as a person of the Book and I would hope for the same treatment from you as I am a person of the Book. Please do your homework.

    Like

  36. Tom says:

    alisbasement said

    These are extremely difficult duties and we spend our entire lives trying to complete them and even then there is no guarantee that you are welcomed into Heaven.

    This is a glaring example of how my God and your god are not the same. Christians have an assurance that once they become a child of God that they will never lose it. John 10:25-30 says Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, (26) but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. (28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (30) I and the Father are one.” Philippians 1:6 saysAnd I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.. These are just a couple of the examples of the assurance that Christians are given.

    A Christian has a guarantee of their salvation and it is not based on their ability to hold and protect it…it is held and protected for them by God Himself. 1Peter 1:1-5 says Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, (5) who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    Like

  37. billphillips says:

    Alisbasement,

    You confirmed everything I said, and Islam sounds absolutely nothing like Christianity. All religions except Christianity say that if you do enough good deeds, they will outweigh your bad deeds, and God will let you into heaven. In other words, if you’re good enough, God will let you into heaven. Are you good enough?

    Try that in a court of law. if you’re guilty of a crime, and you tell the judge that you mowed his lawn, and you walked a little old lady accross the street, he’ll add bribery to your list of crimes. Any judge that would let you go free based on your bribery is going to jail as well. Are you admitting that Allah is a corrupt judge? By your own admission Allah is compassionate, loving and forgiving, but is He not righteous and just?

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  38. alisbasement says:

    So, Tom you’re telling me you can do whatever you want and you’re forgiven as long as you believe in Jesus?

    Ok, both of you are twisting my words around. We believe in the same thing, if your good outweighs your bad, you will make it into heaven. My point was that you have to be good for the majority of your life, you can’t just pick like the last year to start being good.

    billphilips, you were not saying that, you were saying Allah can be “bribed” by a few good deeds. I was showing you how that’s not true and how we have to do good deeds. The 5 pillars are the good deeds, not “bribes”, they are practices of everyday life. You’re just being disrespectful and there’s no basis for it.

    This is also getting far off topic, my intentions here were to let you all know Islam is a peaceful, fair and just Religion. We don’t need to accept each others faiths, but just respect them and learn to coexist. That’s really all I ask.

    Like

  39. alisbasement says:

    Tom, you never addressed my previous post, before the one I wrote to billphilips.

    Like

  40. WhoreChurch says:

    Wow, it was hard to wade through the stupid to get to this comment box.

    Tom, Bill, your lack of understanding of Christianity let alone Islam is glaring and embarrassing to those of us who follow Christ and also have logical thinking skills.

    The OT God the Father, whom you say is Jesus in the NT, is the SAME GOD the Jews and Muslims worship. Period. The Jews do not accept Jesus as the Christ, but do accept the Father of the OT. The Muslims accept the OT God the Father, but do not accept Jesus as the incarnation of God.

    By making the uninformed statements you make here, in public, you are an embarrassment to evangelism. You don’t know what Ramadan is? If you don’t have a clue what Ramadan is you really don’t know the first thing about Islam.

    In addition you guys completely ignore the OT God’s actions and see just “Jesus, meek and mild.” What a crock. As Christianity is taught today, Bill’s comment is right on the mark:

    Jesus has the right to be violent, because the universe is His posession, and He can do with it as He wishes, including killing people, and sending them to hell.

    Repent or be tortured mercilessly for eternity? No, that’s not violent at all. Idiots.

    (Tip o the Mitre to Basement – though you and I are of different faiths, at least you don’t misrepresent my faith to try to prove its inferiority. I guess you left that to Tom and Bill.)

    Like

  41. WhoreChurch says:

    PS: Bill, I loved your comment so much I submitted it to FSTDT.com, maybe they’ll publish it and you’ll be famous.

    Like

  42. alisbasement says:

    WC, I appreciate your comments and for pointing out some of the things I’ve been trying to explain but they haven’t been listening. God is God, there’s just nothing more to it.

    Like

  43. Tom says:

    alisbasement said

    So, Tom you’re telling me you can do whatever you want and you’re forgiven as long as you believe in Jesus?

    NO…that is not what I am saying at all and this is not the teachings of Christianity. Christianity teaches that no matter how bad that you are when God regenerates you all your sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven. You are given a new nature – one that wants to love and please God. A truly saved person will not want to stay in the sinful state they were in before regeneration. This does not mean that Christians will not or do not sin…just that they will not remain in the sinful state. Believing in Jesus is not a “get out of jail free” card.

    alisbasement said

    Ok, both of you are twisting my words around. We believe in the same thing, if your good outweighs your bad, you will make it into heaven. My point was that you have to be good for the majority of your life, you can’t just pick like the last year to start being good.

    We do NOT believe the same thing. Being more good than bad does not get us into Heaven. That is a works based salvation and Christianity does NOT teach a works based salvation. If I understand you correctly your god teaches a works based salvation and you will not know until you face him if you were good enough. Christianity bases salvation of the sovereignty of God. It is Him and His righteousness that salvation is based on. This is yet another proof that your god and my God are NOT the same.

    I wish to ask you a question alisbasement and I do not mean any disrespect by it. You seem very secure in your faith so…..Why is it so important to you that we believe that we serve the same God?

    Like

  44. alisbasement says:

    WC, I would never misrepresent or put down anyone elses faith just to big up my own. We all come from the same roots and while there are some theological differences, we are all God’s children.

    Like

  45. alisbasement says:

    Tom, I think the words have all been twisted up. I don’t know about this salvation based stuff, it all sounds the same to me. I don’t understand where you are regenerated? I’m not saying there is a “get out of jail free” card here, I still think you’re not understand. I may have misrepresented my own faith for that it’s my own ignorance, so don’t judge it off of that.

    I am quite secure in my own faith, I have no need to prove anything to you or anyone else. But, like WC said, I’m looking to help you understand that you have incorrect facts and you need to understand the truth. I really don’t need to prove anything to you because this is the truth and the facts speak for themselves. Hopefully, you’ll realize this someday, but it’s not my job to teach it to you.

    Like

  46. billphillips says:

    WC,

    Where does your version of Christianity come from? Have you ever read anything Jesus said?

    Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell” (Matthew 5:21-22). Also, if you don’t love your brother, the Bible says you abide in death, and you’re a child of the devil (1 John 3:10, 3:14).

    Are you born again?

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  47. Tom says:

    alisbasement said

    Tom, I think the words have all been twisted up. I don’t know about this salvation based stuff, it all sounds the same to me. I don’t understand where you are regenerated? I’m not saying there is a “get out of jail free” card here, I still think you’re not understand. I may have misrepresented my own faith for that it’s my own ignorance, so don’t judge it off of that.

    I think it is you who do not understand. A works based salvation means that our ability to get into Heaven is dependent upon our doing enough good works to earn our entrance into Heaven. In your previous comments you have said that Muslims must do more good works than bad works to be eligible to enter Heaven. On the other hand, Christianity teaches a faith based salvation. This means that in order to get into Heaven Christians must have faith that Jesus died and paid the price for their (individual) sins. Salvation does mot depend on anything the person does, it depends solely on shat Jesus did on the Cross. Regeneration is when the Holy Spirit changes a spiritually dead person into a spiritually alive person who can now understand and respond to the Gospel.

    alisbasement said

    We all come from the same roots and while there are some theological differences, we are all God’s children.

    You keep implying that these theological differences are minor. But my point to you is that they are not minor, they actually put the two religions at odds with one another. If one is true then the other has to be false.

    Like

  48. Tom says:

    WC,

    You have referred to yourself as a follower of Christ. Please share with us your Christian background. What denomination do you belong to? Do you attend church each week? How do you believe a person gets to Heaven? Do you think Jesus is the only way to Heaven?

    I don’t mean to be rude but I am having my doubts about your understanding of the Christ you claim to follow.

    Like

  49. Tom says:

    Bill,

    I appreciate you stepping in and making this a tag team match instead of a 2 on 1 handicap match. Keep up the good fight.

    Like

  50. alisbasement says:

    “On the other hand, Christianity teaches a faith based salvation. This means that in order to get into Heaven Christians must have faith that Jesus died and paid the price for their (individual) sins. Salvation does mot depend on anything the person does, it depends solely on shat Jesus did on the Cross. Regeneration is when the Holy Spirit changes a spiritually dead person into a spiritually alive person who can now understand and respond to the Gospel.”

    Exactly, so as long as you believe in Jesus and that he died for your sins, you can do whatever you want on earth and you’ll go to Heaven. That’s what that translates to me. Is that not what you said?

    Like

  51. alisbasement says:

    This isn’t a 2 on 1 match, this is a mature discussion.

    Like

  52. alisbasement says:

    What you’re not understanding is that in Islam you have to have faith in God and his messengers, as well as be a good person on Earth to go to Heaven. If you do all that, you will go to Heaven. You can’t just have faith, you have to prove your faith as well. That’s what I’ve been trying to say.

    Like

  53. Tom says:

    No, that is not what that means. You are forgetting about the new nature that we are given when we accept Jesus. The new nature changes our wants. We no longer want to be in the state of continual sin. Christians will still sin but the Holy Spirit will convict them of it. With our new nature we want to please God. If you continue to live as you always did before your salvation then you probably did not truly get saved. Jesus changes our lives. He can change yours also, if you will seek Him.

    Like

  54. Tom says:

    alisbasment,

    I know it is not a match. I was attempting to be humorous. I apologize.

    Like

  55. alisbasement says:

    Look who’s trying to convert who now? hahaha (jking). You’re saying the same thing, honestly if you break it down, you just don’t want to see it because you want your faith to be just yours. Just like you said, when you accept Jesus the new nature is supposed change your wants away from sin, and because we’re human we’re bound to sin again. It’s the same thing, as Muslims when we accept Islam, we too change our wants away from sin, but again as humans we will sin again. New nature is in both religions, sorry, look it up.

    No offense taken, just wanted to make sure you weren’t serious.

    Like

  56. Pingback: Islam is ICKY. Meet Tom and Bill, Warriors for Christ « Whore Church

  57. WhoreChurch says:

    Tom and Bill,

    I put my replies to your queries over at my blog. Feel free to address them there or here.

    Like

  58. billphillips says:

    Alisbasement,

    So the principle in Islam is that you exchange good works and faith for eternity in heaven. If Allah is a judge, and you are exchanging good works for your freedom, this seems like a bribe. If Allah is simply the landlord of heaven, that wouldn’t be bribery, it would be valid transaction. However if Allah really is a judge, then it’s bribery.

    How good do you have to be to get to heaven? Are you sure you’re that good?

    I know Muslims think that Christians will go to hell. You’re being very nice, and even though I’ve spoken bluntly, it’s because I care about where you spend eternity.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  59. WhoreChurch says:

    Bill,

    So if God is a judge and he lets a third party pay your way into heaven because HE was perfect (good works), that’s not a bribe? Yeah, that makes so much more sense Bill.

    Like

  60. Tom says:

    WC, there is no third party. Jesus is God. God pays the penalty Himself. He can’t bribe Himself. As a former minister (of which denomination you still refuse to tell us) you should know this.

    Like

  61. WhoreChurch says:

    In your theology, did God die? Was there never any separation between God and Jesus? How can Jesus be seated at the right hand of God if they are one and the same?

    But let’s pretend you are right. Let’s take your human analogy: If a human judge lets off a criminal in our courts today when the person is clearly guilty, even if no bribe is involved, what do we think about that judge?

    If God chooses to forgive OJ Simpson for killing Nicole, even though the Brown family does not want him to, how is that justice? Where do the Browns go for justice?

    And I did tell you what denomination I was a pastor in: Yours. It’s not too tough to figure out from whence you come.

    Like

  62. billphillips says:

    WC,

    If OJ Simpson were found guilty of murder, when it came time to sentence him, what excuse could OJ give for the judge to let him go free?

    Could he ask for forgiveness, and say he’s really sorry? Could he pay the judge money or do favors for the judge? Could he say that murder is really no big deal? There is no excuse, and if the judge let a convicted murderer go free, the judge would probably end up in prison.

    Let’s say rather than murder, OJ was guilty of some white collar crime, and the judge gave him $100,000 fine. It’s perfectly legal for anyone to pay that fine on his behalf. If someone does pay his fine, justice has been served. The judge isn’t letting OJ off the hook. I realize the analogy breaks down when you’re talking about jail time, but you get the point.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  63. WhoreChurch says:

    False analogies about in your world Bill:

    First, I gave you a specific instance with a specific victim. If the judge forgives him–no matter what the reason–how is that justice for the browns?

    Second, your analogy fails even in the “white crime”–who was the victim? How does the victim get justice?

    Like

  64. billphillips says:

    WC,

    First of all, God is just (Deuteronomy 32:4, Isaiah 5:16, Revelation 15:13, etc.). He will make sure that justice is served.

    I believe I answered your question by saying that if the judge let OJ go for any reason that would be a perversion of justice, and the judge would go to jail. Of course, the Browns wouldn’t get justice in that instance. I’ll try to spell things out more clearly in the future.

    I gave an example of a white collar crime for argument sake. Like I said, any analogy will fall short if you try to take it too far. There are crimes where the only punishment is a fine, right? I’m not a lawyer, and I can’t cite any particular law.

    If you don’t like the analogy, that’s fine. The real problem is that we have God’s law–the Ten Commandments. When we break one of the Ten Commandments that is called sin (1 John 3:4). The consequences of sin are death (Romans 6:23), and eternity in hell (Revelation 21:8), because God is just, and will punish every sin ever committed.

    God, being the Creator of the universe, and having the right to do anything He wants, has set up a system to maintain His justice and still let people into heaven. Whatever analogy you want to use to express this truth is fine, but He has made it clear that He isn’t impressed with our good deeds (Isaiah 64:6), and if we’re trying to get into heaven based on obedience and good deeds, it’s not going to work out (Galatians 3:21).

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  65. I simply do not understand how a omni benevolent god would condemn most of his children to eternal damnation for what is essentially an infinitely small period of their lives. 100 years in comparison to an infinite time period in heaven is infinitely small. There is no way to rationalize a skygod, isnt it about time you all realised this.

    My outlook is that we are all accountable to our fellow humans as it is them that suffer the consequences of our actions not some man in the sky wrapped up in a veil of vanity.

    yes i am an evil atheist that will no doubt burn in hell by your standards…WAKE UP, life is far more subtle than simple heaven and hell…

    Like

  66. WhoreChurch says:

    Bill,

    Who taught you that hell is eternal torment? Where did you come up with that teaching?

    Like

  67. Tom says:

    thelawenforcer said

    yes i am an evil atheist that will no doubt burn in hell by your standards…WAKE UP, life is far more subtle than simple heaven and hell

    It is as simple as Heaven and Hell….why try to make it more complicated than God did.

    thelawenforcer said

    My outlook is that we are all accountable to our fellow humans as it is them that suffer the consequences of our actions not some man in the sky wrapped up in a veil of vanity.

    Who gets to be the final authority…the judge? The logical outcome of your outlook is chaos…nothing more nothing less.

    thelawenforcer said

    I simply do not understand how a omni benevolent god would condemn most of his children to eternal damnation for what is essentially an infinitely small period of their lives.

    It does not take 100 years, it only takes an instant to deserve to be eternally separated from God. One sin….ONE SIN…is all it takes. This is because of God’s holiness and His righteousness. Sin cannot go unpunished….since He will eternally be holy and righteous and sinners have no opportunity to repent after they have faced judgment the separation must last for all eternity.

    Like

  68. WhoreChurch says:

    Tom,

    One of the reasons non-Christians have trouble understanding our faith is the type of statements you make above.

    Imagine and earthly father who told his child: The least little variation from any rule means a severe and painful beating with a belt. It doesn’t matter if you touch one of mom’s trinkets or you lie–I will beat you for hours with a belt.

    That’s the kind of thing they see you saying here. Maybe that’s what you believe, but I think it is a skewed picture of Christ and God.

    Like

  69. Tom says:

    WC,

    I understand the point you make. I have wrestled with this a bit myself but…….you knew there was going to be a “but”……we are doing a disservice to someone by sugar coating the Gospel message. Jesus never did. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. That is a hard thing to accept. But that is the message. If we don’t show this side of the Gospel the love of God has no meaning or context. We need to have a balance to teach both sides.

    Like

  70. WhoreChurch says:

    Unless, as I mention, your view (even Biblically) is incorrect.

    I don’t have time this morning to write the pages and pages it would take to demonstrate why I believe the “turn or burn” gospel is no gospel at all. Others have done so long ago.

    Hang around my site for a while and you will find my views stuck in between the humor and sarcasm. It will take a few weeks for you to “get” the site, but I believe if you stick with it for a few weeks it will cause you to consider things you haven’t thought of before.

    Like

  71. Tom says:

    I do not advocate the turn or burn gospel. But the consequences of sin must be the starting point when we share our faith. Without that foundation nobody will recognize their need for a Savior. Without teaching from this foundation we can love people right into hell. Don’t get me wrong, relationship evangelism is important but at some point the foundation must be established.

    Like

  72. WhoreChurch says:

    Bill is now immortalized over at FSTDT.com:

    http://fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=29092

    Tom,

    The starting point for evangelism is loving someone. Not in word, but in deed. Not to save them, but to love them. I am amazed how often I see Christians saying things like “if I befriend him, maybe I can share the Gospel.”

    Friendship (love) is about love, not some hidden agenda.

    Once you are a friend they may ask why you have the faith you do, then the second place to go is to the truth–and I think your truth is more than a little skewed.

    You do indeed teach a turn or burn gospel–and you have made that clear even in your last comment.

    Hey, know what? I think your last comment is a great stand alone quote for FSTDT, what do you think? Do you see the irony? The double-speak? The denial?

    No, you probably don’t.

    Like

  73. firedancer says:

    OK. Busy street. Oncoming bus. Person standing in the middle of the street, determinedly unconcerned. Does not believe in the existence of buses or sidewalks.

    “Respect” for that person’s belief system must be weighed against the fact of the oncoming bus. Does love dictate allowing them to be squashed like a bug?
    Or does love dictate confronting them, quickly and urgently, with the objective truth that there IS an oncoming bus and there IS NO NEED to be squashed like a bug?

    Like

  74. WhoreChurch says:

    Firedancer,

    Thanks for playing along, but your analogy fails on so many points as to be irrelevant when compared with evangelizing the lost:

    1. You pre-suppose everyone who you witness to is in immanent danger of death.
    2. You pre-suppose everyone has not yet heard and decided on the Gospel.
    3. You take evangelism as a logical argument–if I just convince this person, they will become a Christian (ask your good Calvinist friends, that’s not how it works.)
    4. You assume there hasn’t already been someone in their life with whom they already have a loving relationship who has shared the Gospel with them.
    5. You assume that adding to the church is somehow your problem, not God’s.

    This type of shallow thinking is why we are laughed at rather than listened to when it does come time for public (like this blog) discourse on Christianity.

    Like

  75. Tom says:

    WC,

    A few points about your previous comment.

    1. Everyone IS in imminent danger of death. The Bible says “all have sinned” and that “the wages of sin is death”.
    2. Whether a person has heard the Gospel before has no bearing on whether or not we are led by the Holy Spirit to witness to that person.
    3. Our job is not to save anyone. If we can convince them to be saved then they are not truly saved. Our responsibility is only to tell others about Jesus….the Holy Spirit will do the rest. It is His responsibility to save those He has chosen…not ours.
    4. Another person already sharing the Gospel with someone is irrellivent if you are led by the Holy Spirit to witness to them.
    5. No, a Christian’s responsibility is only to tell others about Jesus….the Holy Spirit will add the people to His church if it is His will.

    Being obedient to the Great Commission is not shallow thinking. Anything less than obedience is sin.

    Like

  76. WhoreChurch says:

    Tom,

    You miss the point entirely and I am not sure what words will break through your delusion. You are parroting the same false reasoning used to impose guilt on Christians for not doing “enough” to win people for Christ. It’s a crock. I hope some day you can see that. I get to share my faith and lead people to a closer relationship with Christ almost daily—but it has nothing to do with your reasoning nor with the guilt and shame induced urgency you impose.

    I really don’t know how to help people like you see the fallacious reasons you give for the things you teach. I’ve specifically pointed out the things you are missing and you insist on clinging to your indoctrinated falsehoods.

    Luckily I depend on Phil 3:15.

    Like

  77. Tom says:

    WC said

    I really don’t know how to help people like you see the fallacious reasons you give for the things you teach.

    I have been thinking the same thing about you.

    WC said

    You miss the point entirely and I am not sure what words will break through your delusion. You are parroting the same false reasoning used to impose guilt on Christians for not doing “enough” to win people for Christ.

    I believe it is you who are delusional. You are advocating a gospel which is contrary to that taught in the Bible. As Christians, we are not compelled to share our faith…to tell others what Jesus has done for us….not win people for Christ. He will bring people to Himself.

    Question: Why are my beliefs fallacious and indoctrinated and yours are not? Seems to me that neither of us figured out our beliefs on our own…we both had teachers somewhere along the way. It seems the real question is where did the teachings we follow originate….mine originated with Jesus and His word. I am not sure that yours do.

    Like

  78. WhoreChurch says:

    No, Tom, no one taught me the things I believe. I was taught the same things you were, possibly by the same people. I spent years alone studying just the scriptures. That’s where I came up with my current belief system, it may be unique to me, though since starting my blog I find there are others who find the same conclusions I do.

    I will let the lurkers decide which of us is delusional.

    Like

  79. panoramia says:

    Wow!

    First, I don’t think there’s such a thing as a “religion of peace”. Possibly in the earliest stages—? Even Buddhism has been perverted.

    And that “no leaders” in Islam is also a contradiction. The late Khomeini of Iran comes to mind (what’s an Ayotollah? What’s an Imam? What’s a Mullah?)

    And Christianity — so they’ve declared ‘peace’ in Northern Ireland; what was the final score, and who won? Catholics or Protestants?

    When one looks at the track record, the further back one goes the greater the excuses made: “Oh, not that Pope—his adultery and murdering was hundreds of years ago!” or “Crusades? Crusaders raping and looting wholesale, torturing and putting-to-the-sword? Naaaa, irrelevant, that was hundreds of years ago!”

    So how adaptable is the Bible that the crusaders were using? How irrelevant was and is their Code of Conduct?

    There’s way too much raw material here for a comment, I’ll have to post on it …

    Like

  80. firedancer says:

    Frankly, I’ve personally grown weary of the facile and historically ignorant appeals to the crusades as evidence of Christianity’s supposedly violent tendencies…as if the crusaders were in some way rabidly fanatical true believers bent on conquering the known world for the Christian Empire. The crusades were vile and tactically haphazard political/military campaigns carried out under a thin veneer of specious christian justification under the direction of powerbrokers in the west, targetting disturbing advances by powerbrokers in the east. Then, as now, propaganda carried the day, rather than truth. As for the bible used by the crusaders, there was none. Historically, most of what was known as Christendom at the time lacked Bibles or bible instruction of any significant kind. The masses were, by and large, at the mercy of the priesthood and bishops, and ultimately Rome, to dictate to them what was the revealed truth of God. Bibles in the hands of the masses did not occur until the invention of movable type, and religious and political revolution followed closely thereafter.

    Much as the facts may bother those ‘cultured despisers of religion”, the facts require that one separate Christianity and Christendom, as they are and always have been two entirely seperate things.

    Like

  81. Tom says:

    Firedancer,

    Interesting take on the Crusades. From what I have heard, the Crusades were not undertaken for strictly pure motives. I will agree, that fact has been used to beat Christians over the head for a very long time.

    Like

  82. butterfly says:

    Bible Atrocities
    Note: In the Bible, words having to do with killing significantly outnumber words having to do with love.

    GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God’s wild creatures). They eat of the “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil,” thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the “Tree of Eternal Life.” (Note: God could have done the same for the “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil” in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

    GE 4:2-8 God’s arbitrary preference of Abel’s offering to that of Cain’s provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

    GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

    GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah’s family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

    GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot’s wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

    GE 38:9 “… whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked …, so the Lord put him to death.”

    EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

    EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
    to show that he is Lord;
    to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
    to show his great power;
    to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
    to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
    to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

    EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

    EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

    EX 17:13 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

    EX 21:20-21 With the Lord’s approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn’t die too quickly.

    EX 32:27 “Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

    EX 32:27-29 With the Lord’s approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

    LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will “fall before your sword.”

    LE 26:22 “I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children.”

    LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

    LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

    NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

    NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

    NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord’s command.

    NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

    NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

    NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

    NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

    NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

    NU 21:35 With the Lord’s approval, the Israelites slay Og “… and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ….”

    NU 25:4 (KJV) “And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ….”

    NU 25:8 “He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly.”

    NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

    NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

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  83. butterfly says:

    NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord’s command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and “… every woman who has known man ….” (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

    NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

    DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

    DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

    DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to “utterly destroy” and shown “no mercy” to those whom he gives them for defeat.

    DT 20:13-14 “When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males …. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.”

    DT 20:16 “In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.”

    DT 21:10-13 With the Lord’s approval, the Israelites are allowed to take “beautiful women” from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has “no delight” in his wife, he can simply let her go.

    DT 28:53 “You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.”

    JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord’s blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

    JS 6:21-27 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

    JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

    JS 8:22-25 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

    JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

    JS 10:28 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

    JS 10:30 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

    JS 10:32-33 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

    JS 10:34-35 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

    JS 10:36-37 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

    JS 10:38-39 With the Lord’s approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

    JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) “So Joshua defeated the whole land …; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded.”

    JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

    JS 11:8-15 “And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, …utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ….”

    JS 11:20 “For it was the Lord’s doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses.”

    JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

    JG 1:4 With the Lord’s support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

    JG 1:6 With the Lord’s approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

    JG 1:8 With the Lord’s approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

    JG 1:17 With the Lord’s approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

    JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

    JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

    JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

    JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

    JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

    JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

    JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

    JG 9:53-54 “A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, ‘Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can’t say a woman killed me.’ So his servant ran him through, and he died.”

    JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

    Like

  84. Faithful says:

    “And that “no leaders” in Islam is also a contradiction. The late
    Khomeini of Iran comes to mind (what’s an Ayotollah? What’s
    an Imam? What’s a Mullah?)”

    Couple Definitions:

    Khomeini was a Shiite Muslim, and Ayatollah is a Shiite title.

    Shiite Muslims account for less than 10% of the Muslim population, and are therefore not representative of Islam.

    An Imam is the person who stands in the front at prayers, and gives a sermon on Fridays. He is no more Muslim and no more important than anybody else.

    A Mullah is a teacher. Muslim children go to the Islamic version of Sunday school, and are taught the basics of Islam from this Mullah. Again, he is no more Muslim and no more important than anybody else.

    I can’t speak for Shia practices, as I’ve yet to understand them, but the comment regarding leaders in Islam is that we have no Pope. We have nobody who speaks for Islam as a whole, because we have a little thing called “ijtihad,” independent reasoning, acknowledging the fact that we all have the same book, but read it differently.

    This post is as late as it gets, but I’ll keep going.

    The fact that these brothers above say that we don’t worship the same God disturbs me. If you believe that there is one God, and no other God but Him, then if someone is worshiping Him, how is there this “YOUR God,” all of a sudden? Moreover, you ignored the post that mentioned that if you believe the Jews worship the same God as Christians, how can you deny the same for Muslims, since both Muslims and Jews deny the divinity of Jesus, peace be upon him? I say, we all worship the same God that Abraham did. Enough said.

    Like

  85. butterfly says:

    PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

    PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

    IS 13:15 “Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their … wives will be ravished.”

    IS 13:18 “Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.”

    IS 14:21-22 “Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.”

    IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite’s to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

    JE 16:4 “They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.”

    LA 4:9-10 “Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. … pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food …”

    EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: “… they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ….”

    EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: “… slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ….”

    EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

    EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

    EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

    EZ 23:34 “You shall … pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts.”

    HO 13:16 “They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

    MI 3:2-3 “… who pluck off their skin …, and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron.”

    MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    MT 10:21 “… the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, … children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.”

    MT 10:35-36 “For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man’s enemies will be the members of his own family.”

    MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

    AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently).

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

    Like

  86. butterfly says:

    NOTE: These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation. Some of the selections may be resolvable on certain interpretations–after all, almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations–but it is the reader’s obligation to test this possibility and to decide whether it really makes appropriate sense to do this. To help readers in this task, these lists are aimed at presenting examples where problems may exist given certain allowable (but not always obligatory) assumptions. It should be kept in mind that a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired. It should also be kept in mind that what is and is not an atrocity is to some extent a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree with the author that these are, in fact, atrocities.

    Like

  87. Zaynab s says:

    One of the many short comings which has arisen in the West, is judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this, segments of Western society have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done Judge a religion by the conduct of its people) then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality [1] whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques [2]. Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that the Western world is foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam. So what is the reality of Islam? How does one dispel the myths which have been created and spread so viciously? The only way to examine Islam is to simply examine its belief system. Look at its sources, the Qur’an and Sunna, and see what they have to say. This is the way to find the truth about what Islam says about terror, terrorism and terrorists. One who is sincerely searching for the truth, will do it no other way. The very name Islam comes from the Arabic root word ‘salama’ which means peace. Islam is a religion which is based upon achieving peace through the submission to the will of Allah. Thus, by this very simple linguistic definition, one can ascertain as to what the nature of this religion is. If such a religion is based on the notion of peace, then how is it that so many acts done by its adherents are contrary to peace? The answer is simple. Such actions, if not sanctioned by the religion, have no place with it. They are not Islamic and should not be thought of as Islamic.

    Page last edited on 23 April, 2003

    Section: Explore Islam, Page: [ Previous ] [ Up ] [ Another ]
    Islam – A Religion of Terror ?

    Invitation to Islam, Issue 5, October 1998

    A bomb goes off in a marketplace in Jerusalem. A suicide bomber launches himself into a bus full of women and children in Tel Aviv. Foreign tourists get massacred at a holiday resort in Luxor, Egypt. Villages upon villages get annihilated in Algeria. The list of events worldwide which have come to symbolise the ‘Islamic terror’ are endless. From the times in the 70’s and 80’s when Pan Am and TWA aeroplanes would be highjacked, to the mid 80’s in war torn Lebanon where Americans and Europeans would be held as hostages for years; all such incidents have come to be identified with the religion of Islam. Such incidents from past and present have undoubtedly affected Muslims worldwide and more so in the West. Any Muslim, who wants to practice his/her religion and expresses the pious desire to live under the banner of Islam, is labelled a fundamentalist or extremist. Any Muslim man who walks down a busy street in London or Paris (and Paris moreso) with a beard and a scarf on his head, is looked upon as being a terrorist who’s probably got an AK47 stashed somewhere on his person. Muslim women who are veiled can’t go anywhere in the Western world without being taunted as being oppressed or being mad (for covering up). However, are such beliefs and opinions about Islam really justified?
    Exploding the myth

    One of the many short comings which has arisen in the West, is judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this, segments of Western society have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done Judge a religion by the conduct of its people) then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality [1] whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques [2]. Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that the Western world is foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam. So what is the reality of Islam? How does one dispel the myths which have been created and spread so viciously? The only way to examine Islam is to simply examine its belief system. Look at its sources, the Qur’an and Sunna, and see what they have to say. This is the way to find the truth about what Islam says about terror, terrorism and terrorists. One who is sincerely searching for the truth, will do it no other way. The very name Islam comes from the Arabic root word ‘salama’ which means peace. Islam is a religion which is based upon achieving peace through the submission to the will of Allah. Thus, by this very simple linguistic definition, one can ascertain as to what the nature of this religion is. If such a religion is based on the notion of peace, then how is it that so many acts done by its adherents are contrary to peace? The answer is simple. Such actions, if not sanctioned by the religion, have no place with it. They are not Islamic and should not be thought of as Islamic.
    Jihad

    The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. They readily equate this term with violence and oppression. However, it must be said that the meaning of jihad, as a ‘holy war’, is something which is totally foreign and not from Islam. If anything, such a description belongs more so to Christianity and its adherents. It was terms like this which were used to justify the slaughter and pillage of towns and cities during the crusades by the Christians. By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (saws) said:

    “The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic” [3]

    In the Qur’an, Allah also says:

    “So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur’an)” (Surah Al-Furqan 25:52)

    By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allah says in the Qur’an:

    “And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allah is full of bounty to the worlds” (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251)

    Such would be the corruption on this Earth if there had never been a combative jihad that Allah says:

    “For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is mentioned much, would surely have been pulled down. Indeed Allah will help those who help His (cause). Truly Allah is All strong, All mighty” (Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)

    This combative jihad being both defensive and offensive, is something which is commanded by Allah upon the Muslims. Through this command the oppressed and weak are rescued from the tyranny of the world:

    “And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; ‘Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors and raise for us from you one who will protect and raise for us from you one who will help” (Surah An-Nisa 4:75)

    Anyone who knows the early history of Islam, will know that all those nations and empires which came under the fold of Islam were indeed previously oppressed. When the companions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) went out for the offensive jihad against the Egyptians, the Persians and the Romans, we find that the people did not resist against them at all. Rather, they accepted Islam on such a scale, that it is inconceivable that the jihad of Islam could be anything other then a liberation for these people; a liberation from centuries of tyranny. In fact, with the Byzantine Egyptians and the people of Spain, the Muslims were even beckoned to come and liberate these lands from the oppression of their kings. This is the glorious track record of the Muslim jihad Compare this with the brutal track record of warfare in the Western world over the centuries. From the crusades against the Muslims to the days of colonial warfare, the Western world has killed, destroyed and plundered everything which has come in its way. Even today this merciless killing goes on by the Western nations. While claiming to be about world peace and security, Western nations are ready to bomb innocent civilians at the drop of a hat. The classic example of this is the recent bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan. Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; [4] something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But

    “… when it is said to them; ‘Make not mischief on the Earth’, they say; ‘We are only peace makers’. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not” (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)

    The hypocrisy of the West is indeed astounding.

    By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allah says in the Qur’an:

    “And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors” (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)

    Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) “forbade the killing of women and children” [5]. Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:

    “Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity” (Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

    After reading such passages from the Qur’an and knowing about what Islam commands and prohibits in jihad, the rules of warfare are given a new meaning; a meaning of justice. How sad it is then, that whilst Islam is condemned for striking terror into the hearts of the people, the likes of the Serbs, the Indian army in Kashmir and the Israeli soldiers in Palestine are left untarnished for the atrocities they have committed in the name of warfare.

    So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allah’s path? From what has already been stated above, it can be deduced that this is not from the religion. However, unfortunately many Muslims have taken suicide bombing as being a virtuous act by which one receives reward. This could not be further from the truth. The Prophet (saws) said: “Those who go to extremes are destroyed” [6]. Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions. Unfortunately, today (some misguided) Muslims believe that such acts are paving the way for an Islamic revival and a return to the rule of Islam’s glorious law. However, we fail to bear in mind that the Prophet (saws) said:

    “Do not be delighted by the action of anyone, until you see how he ends up” [7]

    So, for example what is the end of a suicide bomber in Palestine?, a leg here, an arm there. Massive retaliation by the Israeli’s in the West Bank and Gaza. More Muslims killed and persecuted. How can we be delighted with such an end? What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allah (saws) said:

    “He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell” [8]

    Some are under the misconception that by killing oneself for an Islamic cause, one commits an act which deserves Paradise. Once when a man killed himself, the Prophet (saws) said: “He is a dweller of the Fire”. When the people were surprised at this, the Prophet (saws) said:

    “A person performs the deeds which to the people appears to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the dwellers of the Fire” [9]

    The taking of ones life which Allah has given as a trust to the human, is a great sin. Likewise the taking of other lives (which is so often the case with suicide bombing) is also forbidden, as human life is indeed precious:

    “…If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind” (Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)

    Thus, all other types of extremities such as hostage taking, hijacking and planting bombs in public places, are clearly forbidden in Islam.
    The Media

    By going through the teachings of Islam, it is clear that such a religion has only come to benefit mankind – not to destroy it. So why is there so much hatred for this noble religion in the West? The answer is simple, the media. It is the Jewish influenced media of the West which has portrayed Islam to be something that it is not. During the 70’s and 80’s when the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) were carrying out daring highjacks on the worlds airways, the media in the West portrayed it as being Islamic. When the Shi’ite suicide bombers of the 80’s were causing so much havoc in the Lebanon and in the Gulf region, the media in the West portrayed it as a part of Islam. However, it is known by the heads of the media that the likes of the PLO were not an Islamic organisation, and that according to Islam, Shi’ites are outside the fold of Islam [10]. Yet such facts are never portrayed by a media which seeks to cover the truth of this religion. A number of years ago, when the Oklahoma City bomb went off, a headline in one of the newspapers, ‘Today’ [11], summed up this attitude. With a picture of a fire fighter holding a dead child in his arms, the headline read: “In The Name of Islam” Time has of course proven that this bigoted assumption was incorrect, as Timothy McVeigh, a right wing radical now faces the death penalty for the crime [12]. Likewise the bombs which went off in the Paris metro in 1995, were also blamed on Muslim fanatics. It has now emerged that the Algerian secret service who having routinely bribed many European journalists and MPs, were actually behind it. The desire to throw a veil over Islam is immense by these people:

    “They intend to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will complete His light even though the disbelievers hate (it)” (Surah As-Saff 61:8)

    Whilst trying to destroy Islam through this instrument of the media, the Jews clearly try to portray an image of themselves as being the oppressed people. Every year, we are reminded as to how many Jews perished under the Nazis in World War II. We are made to feel sorry for these same people who have gone on to commit so many crimes upon the Palestinian people. Some may say that this is a racist and biased viewpoint. But we say; If this media was not run and orchestrated by the Jews and was truly neutral, then why are Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, two former Israeli prime ministers, not held aloft as being terrorists? Anyone who knows about the history of the Palestinian occupation will tell you that these two men were members of the Stern Gang and Irgun, two notorious Jewish terror groups who killed many innocent people [13]. If this media was truly impartial, then why does it not tell about the extent of the Israeli bombardment and illegal occupation of Southern Lebanon and its people? [14] And if this media really had nothing against the religion of Allah, then why does it not inform the people that every day hundreds are entering the religion of Islam? Such things will never be highlighted in the Western media, simply because to do so would be against their very interests.

    With such immense pressure against it, it is indeed a blessing from Allah that Islam goes from strength to strength. It continues to grow faster then any other religion in the Western world, conquering the hearts and minds of thousands. All this should not even surprise us though, for Allah has promised us that this religion will prevail:

    “It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, so that He may make it victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers detest it” (Surah As-Saff 61:9)

    It is a must that humanity comes towards the religion of Islam. Without it, we will continue to slip down the road of inequity and darkness. With it we can establish a society of justice and peace. Religion of terror? … no. The way forward? … yes.

    “There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has indeed become distinct from the wrong. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All Hearing, All Knowing” (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:2)
    Ghandi said ” I like your Christ but, I don’t like your Christians, they are so unlike Christ’’

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  88. OBJECTIVE says:

    The very name Islam comes from the Arabic root word ’salama’ which means peace.

    sorry zaynab BUT islam comes from the arabic root ASLAMA and NOT salama and which means, ASLAMA, surrendered… i am not saying that islam doesn’t preach peace but please be OBJECTIVE when trying to explain sthg!!!

    Thank you…

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  89. someone says:

    you guys take your books too seriously, all of you.

    so go ahead and blow yourself up, murder someone, praise someone, or whatever your cross-indulgent mind tells you to do. just make sure that YOURE doing the right thing, who cares about everyone else…right? so long as YOUR seat is reserved…..

    -someone whose waiting for you yappers to actually take action

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  90. wedad says:

    ok whoever u r who wrote this just shut up cuz u know nothing about islam so go learn it ,study it, understand it and know what our prophet did for us then come talk u cant talk about stuff u have nothing to do with it and if u think u know it contact me and i will make sure u do know about it cuz there is no human how knew about islam and didnt get into it ok
    so byebye
    sweet_dady@msn.com

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  91. Tom says:

    Wedad,

    Thanks for visiting my blog. I think you are mistaken. It is possible to study the basics of something and be able to comment on it. I know many try to claim that Islam is a religion of peace but the evidence says otherwise. All you have to do is read the headlines of the prominent news outlets and it won’t take long to find examples proving Islam is not a religion of peace.

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  92. MU says:

    iSLAM IS ABOUT PEACE , AND ISLAM DOSENT TELL MUSLIMS TO KILL INOCCENT PEOPLE .IF A MUSLIM DO THAT ,IT DOSENT MEAN THAT ISLAM TELL HIM TO DO THAT , YALL SHOULD READ MORE ABOUT ISLAM AND FORGET WHT BUSH OR THE NEWS SAID.

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  93. B. Zachariah says:

    Islam is the religion of peace regardless what others say about it, just because of some one opinion on or action does not make ISLAM a bad religion. Therefore, not every Muslim leader is a true Muslim these days because they are not following the teaching of the Islamic religion. If some one insults the prophet of Islam, all Muslims will react to that insult for their love to the prophet of God.

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    • Tom Shelton says:

      B. Zachariah,

      It is true that you can’t judge a whole population by the actions of one member of that population. No question there. We all can understand that Islam, like all religions, has adherents that are extremists. The problem we have is what the religion actually teaches. It is also quite telling when we look at how the leaders of a religion react to these extremists. In the case of the original post, it was an Islamic leader who was calling for the murder of someone because of something Islam considers an insult. Things like this are never condemned by other Islamic adherents.

      To simply declare something (“Islam is a religion of peace”, in this case) does not make it so. We here news stories everyday that prove that Islam is a religion of peace in name only. In the recent attack by the Muslim member of the US military on the base in Texas I have not heard one report of an Islamic leader condemning (in any way) what was done. In fact, I have actually heard a few reports of other Muslims being supportive. THESE ARE NOT EXAMPLES OF A RELIGION OF PEACE.

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