Human Sacrifice in America

Source post here: Human Sacrifice in America « Fisher of Men

Bill over at Fisher of Men touches on one of my hot button issues. I usually use the phrase child sacrifice but we are talking about the same topic: ABORTION!! Bill makes the point that there are various forms of human sacrifice practiced today, thats right, TODAY in many religions. We don’t label it as human sacrifice but that is exactly what it is.

Abortion is WRONG! It is MURDER! It is the sacrificing of a baby on the alter of SELF! How bad is it when someone has to die so that we won’t be inconvenienced. Who speaks for the baby? What are it’s rights? Why is it punished for the actions of others?

If you are a pro-sacrifice believer then I urge you to reconsider your position. It will save lives if you do. If you are anti-sacrifice then I urge you to become more vocal about your beliefs. Don’t vote for politicians who support child sacrifice. Talk to your friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, and anyone else who will listen about what is going on and how to get behind stopping it. We will have to answer to God on Judgement Day for how we have dealt with this issue.

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21 Responses to Human Sacrifice in America

  1. Farthel says:

    Maybe I’ll go to hell, but I still abortion should be somehow legal. For not saying 100% legal.

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  2. Tom says:

    Farthel,

    You don’t have to remain on the wrong side of this issue. You can change your opinion…you are still alive so you have time to make the change. But you are not guaranteed tomorrow so don’t delay making a change in this area or others that separate you from God.

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  3. Pingback: Human Sacrifice in America « God Things

  4. T.L. Holladay says:

    I notice you did not mention anything about war being human sacrifice in this essay. Why did you avoid that topic? Or does it not matter anymore once a person is OUTSIDE the womb?

    Our good American soldiers are being human sacrificed every day in this illegal war over in Iraq. If you were truly pro-life all the way you would strongly condemn all life-taking activities from the moment of conception to natural death. ALL OF THEM. That includes the death penalty too, but I notice you did not mention that either.

    “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do…”

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  5. Pingback: On “Human Sacrifice” « Diary of an Episcochick

  6. Tom says:

    T.L. Holladay said

    I notice you did not mention anything about war being human sacrifice in this essay.

    If you were truly pro-life all the way you would strongly condemn all life-taking activities from the moment of conception to natural death. ALL OF THEM. That includes the death penalty too, but I notice you did not mention that either.

    I think that you have a completely warped understanding of the pro-life movement. It is a straw man argument that you have constructed and it fails on many levels. First, the basis for the pro-life movement is found in Exodus 20:13. It says “You shall not murder.” Murder is defined as the taking of innocent life. From this, it is easy to see why abortion is wrong. Unborn babies are completely innocent (in human standards) and cannot defend themselves. Killing them is nothing short of murder and more accurately child sacrifice.

    Now, lets discuss the other issues you mention…war and the death penalty. First lets deal with war. I might agree with you if the current war (or any war) was started for material reasons. This would include wanting the land or the resources of the land for the gain of the aggressor country. I know that many what to claim that the Iraq war is a war about oil but if it was then why have we not confiscated their oil fields yet and why are our gas prices continuing to climb? We must distinguish between starting a war for the material reasons from getting into a war in which we were attacked and are simply defending ourselves. In case you have forgotten…we were attacked on 9/11. We were not the aggressor…we are defending ourselves. It is not sacrificing our troops when we are defending ourselves. Also remember that we have an all voluntary military. They have chosen to put themselves on the line and I, for one, am very proud that we have people in this country willing to do that. They are to be commended and saluted for their voluntary sacrifice. If you cannot understand this then I am worried that your worldview is skewed.

    Next, lets discuss the death penalty. In our country the death penalty is only applicable for certain very heinous crimes. Before a person can be sentenced to death they must be caught, tried, and convicted in our courts by a jury of their peers. Once sentenced, they guilty person in entitled to every possible appeal….a process that usually takes many years to complete. Then and only then can the sentence be carried out. By this time, the conviction had been reviewed many times to safeguard the rights of the convicted murderer. The guilt of this person has been established multiple times. This person then deserves the proper punishment for their crime. It is not a human sacrifice to punish the guilty.

    Again, I believe your understanding of what it means to be pro-life is wrong. I hope I have helped explain it to you. I will be happy to try again or expound on any aspect you don’t understand.

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  7. maruda says:

    za mundurkiem panny sznurkiem

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  8. T.L. Holladay says:

    Oh no, I get it just fine.

    And I’m still not buying it.

    Because of one thing:

    Who did Jesus kill?

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  9. Tom says:

    Tracy,

    The New Testament does not tell us anywhere that Jesus killed anyone. But if this is your only perception of Jesus then you have a very narrow understanding of who Jesus was.

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  10. Christian says:

    Tom, if you think in anyway that Jesus would condone the killing of innocents (or even the non-innocent) then you have a very imaginative understanding of who Jesus was.

    To condemn abortion (which is justifiable) and ignore horrible things such as ‘collateral damage’ or the sanctioning of the bombings Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo and Dresdien is hipocricy. A Japanese child (or nun, in the case of Nagasaki) is no more deserving of death, war or no war, than the unborn fetus. Nor is the Muslim child. I am not making a statement on the present war except that we should be very careful before we stamp it with God’s approval.

    The OT God was portrayed as wrathful and vengeful. This was peculiar to the primitive Israelites. Jesus has come to give us a better picture of who God is. And slaying Canaanite babies is not part of this picture.

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  11. Monte says:

    Hi Tom, here are a couple of thoughts to consider:
    “I know that many what to claim that the Iraq war is a war about oil but if it was then why have we not confiscated their oil fields”
    It’s because the plan was not to have government ownership of the oil fields, but to compel the Iraqis to de-nationalize the industry and allow control of it by Western oil corporations. There’s a link to the history of it here, beginning in 2002.
    Second, I’d encourage you to read a summary I wrote of a speech by Middle East scholar Juan Cole, entitled A brief history of Iran-US relations, part 1. The history of US involvement in the region is quite a bit different than we learned in school, and oil has historically been the common denominator. If Iraq is not about oil, it represents quite a turnaround in US approach to the region.
    Third, please don’t forget that 9/11 and Iraq had no connection with one another prior to the US invasion. Saddam, as a secular Muslim, was despised by Al Qaeda. It was not until after the US invasion that Al Qaeda developed a presence there for the purpose of killing American soldiers occupying a Muslim country.
    Fourth, since the advent of DNA science, dozens of men on death row have been exonerated. This led to the moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois. As it has been practiced in the US, it’s pretty safe to assume that many innocent people have been put to death, and that the long appeals-which sometimes consist only of reviews of procedure, not consideration of evidence that would re-establish guilt-have not, sadly, protected the innocent.
    Best wishes,
    Monte Asbury

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  12. billphillips says:

    I think we all have to make up our own minds on whether any patricular war is just or not. It’s much easier with 20/20 hindsight.

    People think that Christians are hypocritical for being pro life, for the death penalty, and for fighting just wars. Christians consider all life to be precious. When Hitler started taking the lives of innocent people, we went to protect the lives of innocent people. German soldiers had to be killed to stop Hitler. They chose to fight for the cause of evil.

    As far as the death penalty, the Bible allows the death penalty for many offenses. God puts the government in place to carry out justice on earth. If our government chooses to execute someone, that is its right, as long as it is following the Biblical model.

    I don’t think there’s any doubt that abortion is killing a child, and is a sin. There is no inconsistency in being pro-life, for just war, and for the death penalty.

    Thanks,
    Bill

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  13. Christian says:

    When I see people protesting the death penalty and also claiming to be Pro Choice I tend to see that as hypocrisy. To decry abortion and then give a nod of the head to other means of taking lives is also hypocritical.

    Not all situations are similar to that of World War II. That being said ,WWII was just the second act in a war in which numerous Christian nations ravaged most of Europe, resulting in the deaths and suffering of millions of people for….what?

    The latest, most up to date, Biblical model is Jesus Christ. Can anyone here picture him throwing the switch for the electric chair? Pushing the button that opens the bomb bay doors? Or is it that Jesus is OK with all of this, he just let’s his ‘people’ do the dirty work?

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  14. billphillips says:

    Christian,

    You need to read the whole Bible–not just the parts you like.

    Revelation 19:11-21 says, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True [Jesus]. With justice he judges and makes war….Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations….The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”

    Jesus came the first time as a suffering servant. He accomplished that task, and is coming back as a conquering King. Those who don’t believe in Him and have already died are in hell, because Jesus sent them there as the Judge of their soul. Jesus is infinitely loving and infinitely just.

    Thanks,
    Bill

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  15. Christian says:

    Bill, I read the whole Bible and the only parts I skip over are the sacrificial grocery lists for the early temple offering. (Yawn)

    But….just because there is a metaphorical depiction of a rampaging Jesus as found in a dream account by a preacher named John while imprisoned on Patmos does not mean the you can ignore the first-hand multiple witnesses of what Jesus taught the multitudes. I think that the living Jesus holds a bit more gravitas than John’s Revelation, of which Martin Luther himself said he could not find the Holy Spirit, red letters or no red letters.

    And, even if this is an accurate rendering of Jesus (of course John is talking about Christ’s anger with the corrupted church) it does not give us a free pass to start taking lives. Suppose that God did command the Israelites in the OT to commit genocide (doubtful) last time I checked we aren’t primitive nomads looking for a home in the desert.

    There is more to this salvation thing than uttering a formulaic oath of allegiance. Jesus said that he was the way – his life, his example, is the way we must follow. Please leave all weapons along the trail.

    The meat of the Gospel, the tough, hard to swallow commands of Christ for unqualified forgiveness, mercy, charity, and love is so much harder to swallow than the OT milk of the law.

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  16. billphillips says:

    Christian,

    You can’t throw out entire books of the Bible that contradict your views, and continue to claim that your ideas are biblical. The entire Bible was written by Jesus, through men.

    In the OT, wherever it says “LORD,” that is not just the Father speaking, that is the Triune God–the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They substitute LORD for the Hebrew word: YHWH. No one knows for sure how YHWH is pronounced, because Jews so revered God’s personal name that they never spoke it or wrote it out completely. We know that it comes from Exodus 3 when God tells Moses that His name is “I AM.” Jesus claims the name “I AM” in John 8:58.

    I just don’t see what you’re saying being a complete picture of what the Bible says.

    Thanks,
    Bill

    Like

  17. Tom says:

    Christian,

    I agree with Bill. You have to accept the whole Bible or none of it. Christianity is not a buffet – meaning you don’t get to pick the parts you like and disregard the rest.

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  18. Monte says:

    1. The part that’s being disregarded here is the gospels. Jesus, the “perfect representation of God” showed nothing that would suggest or justify belligerence toward people of another nation – just the opposite, in fact. While the Old Testament is inspired, we are not Jews, but Christians, and the example we’re told to follow is Jesus as he lived in human form, often at odds with Old Testament law. I’m sure you don’t recommend stoning immoral women or wearing only unmixed fibers or putting to death arrogant children or men who have sex with their wives during periods. So, you see, you could be accused of picking and choosing what to believe, or declining to “accept the whole Bible or none of it” unless Jesus is indeed the “author and perfecter” of our faith, and his life the ultimate example of how we are to live.
    2. Bill: No theologian would agree that the invasion of Iraq meets the criteria for just war: Just cause; Comparative justice; Legitimate authority; Right intention; Probability of success; Last resort. Pre-emptive strikes – let alone self-authorized ones with the world calling for further negotiation – fail the test. Christians have lacked the courage and wisdom to oppose that which seemed patriotic. Caesar has been Lord, not Jesus.

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  19. Christian says:

    Bill and Tom; I think that it is possible that you have made an ‘idol’ out of the Bible. The Bible even suggests that Jesus now has authority over scripture itself, as convoluted as that sounds.

    How do you think the canon was chosen? How do you explain the differences between various translations? Scriptures that have been left out of one version and not another? Men made those choices.

    But back to the subject, Monte is right about Iraq not meeting the requirements of a ‘just war’. Besides, what is biblical about a just war? It is Augustine’s paradigm and I think he was guilty of compromising with Babylon. (There is the meaning behind Revelation)

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  20. Totally Confused by Dogmatic Hypocricy says:

    Although i do not believe that life begins at conception, i will not argue that point here. What i fail to grasp, is why, once that fetus enters the world, its value is no longer of any interest to the rabid pro-lifers.
    No matter what our veiws, we all know that many millions of these additions to the human race are born into the most horrifying of circumstances. We have all seen the pictures of children in the Sudan, wandering through the desert dying of thirst and starvation. We know that millions of them are neglected, tortured, enslaved, raped and basically left to die in every country in the world.

    Is this phenomenon to be blamed on the pro-abortion advocates? While i will not state my stance, i will state that with legal abortion, millions of living, breathing, walking, talking and feeling children would never have had to endure so much misery before their death.

    I, personally, would have a lot more sympathy for the anti-abortion position, if its adherents were willing to act on their sanctamonious beliefs, and gaurantee that the life they wish to force into this world, was protected by them in any and every way necessary.

    Born in a war zone, move they and their families to safe living conditions. Born into abject poverty, make sure they are fed, clothed and medically treated. Born to neglectful or abusive parents, remove them and place them in the loving homes of the anti-abortionists. Not just some of them, those that can be helped by the numerous fund-raising efforts, but every single last one of them, as not one is any less important than any other according to the beliefs espoused by the bible thumpers. If that means that you people of good will adopt and bring into your home, from one to hundreds of these children, so be it, at least you will be spouting honesty instead of hypocricy.

    And please stop the inane arguments about Jesus and what he did and didnt do. When the world was flooded, the orders came from higher up, so maybe we cant pin it on the son, but we can sure hold it against the father. When the Crusades and the Inquisition were further destroying human beings, the perpetrators were operating under the color of God. Please put your bible back in your pocket and stop trying to convince everyone in the world that you are the only ones who know the right way.

    Your views, being forced down the throat of hundreds of other religious believers in their own higher power, are tired of your self-rightessnous.

    Now shut your mouth, get off your ***, [Edited by Tom] and start traveling the world and rounding up every child that is dying of disease, abuse or any other malady that they should never have been exposed too, and bring them into your loving and all encompassing arms.

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  21. Tom says:

    Totally Confused said

    Although i do not believe that life begins at conception, i will not argue that point here. What i fail to grasp, is why, once that fetus enters the world, its value is no longer of any interest to the rabid pro-lifers.

    Interesting, you very effectively sidestep the entire issue of child sacrifice and successfully set up a straw man which you then attack in the remainder of your post.

    This fact that life begins at conception is indisputable. Once that fact is accepted the pro-sacrifice crowd has already lost the debate. The straw man that you have created does not remotely resemble what pro-lifers believe. Pro-lifers believe in the sanctity of human life. This means that we believe that life is a gift from God and should be valued.

    If you wish to discuss your understanding of when life begins and how that relates to your belief about child sacrifice, please state your positions and we will have an interesting discussion.

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